In this episode of AyahuascaPodcast.com host Sam Believ has a conversation with Berto Cartagena
We touch upon subjects of spiritual awakening, Ayahuasca and Christianity is Ayahuasca a sin?
Find more about Berto
https://www.instagram.com/bertocartagena
Transcript
Sam Believ (00:03.121)
podcast as always with you host Sam Bileev. Today we’re interviewing Berto Karatahena. Berto is one of our previous patients here at Loira. He has been here a bit more than a year ago I believe. Correct Berto?
Berto Cartagena (00:18.206)
Right, it was the end of February of 2023.
Sam Believ (00:21.989)
like a year and a few months. Berto’s transformation is one of the interesting ones and this is what we’re gonna talk today on this episode about his journey and discovering spirituality. Berto, welcome to the podcast.
Berto Cartagena (00:40.27)
Thank you, thank you Sam, thank you for having me.
Sam Believ (00:43.525)
Berner, first tell us a little bit about yourself and what brought you to Ayahuasca to begin with because I believe your first ever experience was with us here at Lawara, right?
Berto Cartagena (00:55.574)
Yeah, it was. So, ayahuasca was something that was kind of, you know, the old saying, you don’t choose ayahuasca, ayahuasca chooses you. And it all began back in 2018 when somebody that I follow online, some of you might know him, his name is Gerard Adams. He’s a thought leader. And I saw he was very close to me when I lived in LA, he was having a meetup. I didn’t really even know what like…
that meant, but I was like, okay, let me go check him out. And I went there and he’s in a hotel lobby. I’m thinking it’s gonna be like a talk, but it was very informal, just a group of people gathered around the hotel lobby and everything he was talking about was ayahuasca because he had just got back from his first ceremony. I think he did a ceremony in Costa Rica or something like that and he was saying all these.
I guess, spiritual transformation, messages. And I was like, wow, this sounds amazing until it got to one part. So he was talking about how he was raised by his grandma up to the age of 12, and then she passed away. And he had an encounter with his grandma who told him, look, you need to let me go.
And that really struck a nerve because I had lost my mom back in 2013. I was like, up to that point, I was like, ayahuasca sounds amazing. But then I thought, what if I see my mom? I don’t know if I could handle that, at least at that time. So as the story unfolds, I keep meeting people that have done ayahuasca. To that point, I didn’t even know about ayahuasca.
And even my ex-girlfriend at the time, she had done ayahuasca when she was 17 with her dad. So it just kept coming to my conscious. And all I ever heard anyone say is how amazing, how transformative it was that, you know, they cured a physical ailment or they came into abundance afterwards. But again, there was that fear. Up to last year, I finally said, you know what? I’ve had enough. I’m not happy.
Berto Cartagena (03:07.362)
where I’m at, I felt like there was so much more to me and that I just wasn’t, you know, I didn’t feel fulfilled. I didn’t feel successful. And I was like, and that’s what Tony Robbins says, a lot of times we don’t change until the pain of staying the same becomes greater of changing, right? So that’s where I was. And then I wanted to originally go to Peru because I wanted, if I was gonna do it, I wanted to do it right. I wanted it to be very, very official. So…
But then I saw how much Peru was it was very expensive and at the same time There was a bachelor party going on in Colombia for my cousin. So I was like and I was planning to live in Colombia It’s a lot cheaper And I have previously visited so I went to cook So I was looking around for different treats in Colombia and I came across Larara now first I was a little skeptical because I thought you guys looked a little commercial and I wanted something superficial I saw you guys had an Instagram page in a Facebook
But then when I saw that you guys had like a legit Taita and he looked the part and he was Indian and then, you know, indigenous I should say. And then you were very responsive. Like every time I asked you a question, you’re very responsive. You weren’t arrogant. You were quick to respond. So I just got a good feel. And then all the reviews were just nothing but like amazing, amazing reviews. And then the last thing, because, and then lo and behold,
when I was staying in Columbia, there was somebody in my yoga class who actually went to La Jolla. So that was interesting too. So my only concern, this was the last question I asked you Sam, I was like, okay, I see people getting all these amazing transformations, but I was like, is the medicine strong? Because I didn’t hear anybody say, they got crazy visions, everything was like, they found out so much about themselves. I was like, I wanna make sure that I have the real ayahuasca experience. And Sam was like, no.
The medicine is strong. I was like, okay, cool. And that’s how I ended up coming.
Sam Believ (05:13.941)
Was it strong, Berto? Was it strong after you’ve been, you know, what can you say now? Was it strong?
Berto Cartagena (05:17.239)
What’s that?
Berto Cartagena (05:23.118)
Well, funny you mention that, so when I took my first cup, you know, I was just like waiting there, waiting there, waiting there, didn’t feel anything. So the first place my mind went, I was like, oh, I had a feeling, or maybe I got a bad batch or something like that. So I was like, okay, well, at least no problem. I’ll take the second cup because when I originally was gonna go there, I was like, well, you know, maybe I’ll test the waters, one, maybe.
Worked my way up to two, I never even thought I was gonna take three, unless, I don’t know. But yeah, so, originally I thought it wasn’t strong, but I would find out later that, nah, it’s, it definitely is not weak.
Sam Believ (06:09.749)
Okay, so it’s interesting how you describe the ayahuasca calling, you know, once you get into that wavelength, it just starts coming at you from every direction, friends, people, you open your Instagram and it’s there, it’s like once it once you get the calling, it gets very obvious. And as I like to say, sometimes I’m also part of that message and through the podcast and Instagram and Facebook or.
you name it. So it’s very interesting because I remember feeling same thing when I was first starting. Berto, I remember you really well when you came to the retreat and I, you know, as we host on average 700 plus people a year now, so it’s kind of hard to remember everyone. But I remember you because my first impression of you was negative because when you came to one of the first word circles, you’re talking about more about like you wanted to do ayahuasca because of the…
more of a success and growth aspect of it. And you were not slightly tinge-arrogant. And I remember that I was like, no, that’s not really ayahuasca. And then I think it was words after ceremony number three, you completely changed and you switched to spirituality and family. And in my mind, it was one of those impressive transformations. And then after we spoke, you know.
more than a year later to see that not only was this transformation but it’s stuck to you and you started this long spiritual journey and basically changed so much that you know it’s impressive so can you tell us about you know what was going through your mind in the beginning of the retreat what was that experience that changed you so much and maybe afterwards we can talk a little bit about you know your the spiritual journey you went upon
Berto Cartagena (08:04.95)
Yeah, so I mean, I was always spiritual. I grew up Catholic, and then I kind of deviated more into new age, after reading like The Power of Now, and Wishes Fulfilled, and what’s that book by Michael Dyer? All these different books, and then I was, we are gods, we can manifest, we could create, and what I got from those books was a high, right? It was like, oh wow, they make you feel so empowered.
But then at the end of the day, I didn’t really see my life changing much. And so what I mentioned earlier is I felt like there was more to me. Now I always, I’ve never been a shallow person. I think I might’ve come across that way and I see why you may have thought that. And, you know, and you weren’t the only one that said that afterwards when they saw the transformation, but that was the real me, the, I just also, and this, I found out a long time ago, I always had a little.
limiting belief that I wasn’t good enough. And I didn’t know that until I discovered that from my therapist, which I didn’t even, it’s weird. I went because I was interested in reflexology and then this lady was like, well, you know, you should see a psychiatrist or a therapist or something. But I, the funny thing about that is I saw it just because even then, and I was like.
28, 29, making six figures a year. Even then I felt like there was more to me. So I was like, you know, there’s nothing wrong with me. I just want to see a therapist to see if I can elevate, right? And then she told me, she’s like, you have this limiting belief. Your spirit knows you’re good enough, but that little wounded child, that inner child that was bullied, you know, I started, she started, I started remembering all these things. And I was like, wow, how being bullied
being the smallest kid in the class and all these things are playing a role in my, in my current situation. So I think when you’re bullied and you’re the smallest in the class, you have that little man syndrome. Like you always had to prove yourself. Right. And that’s why I wanted to be a rapper or actor. I wanted fame because deep inside I felt inadequate. Um, but I was always a person of depth. It wasn’t like material. Um, I also always wanted to help people.
Berto Cartagena (10:26.882)
Like I felt like I was put on this earth to help to mentor whatever the case may be. Right. So that’s why when I came there, I was talking about, Oh, I want to be a billionaire. I want to be, you know, I feel like cause I felt like I had that, that potential and it wasn’t to buy a bunch of fancy cars and all this that I wanted to do that so I can have an impact. Right. For me, it’s all about impact. But what I realized is sometimes like,
The real important stuff is some of the most basic, smallest things. And that’s what ayahuasca allowed me to uncover that the reason I wasn’t where I wanted to be was because I had a blocked heart. As crazy as that sounds, I wasn’t operating from a place of love. So my first ceremony made me realize like, really what’s important is love, is family for a while.
I didn’t know if I was gonna get married or have children. And it kind of brought back those feelings.
Sam Believ (11:33.517)
Well, yeah, obviously, I understand, you know, we’re deeper than we are being able to perceive. But yeah, you went from that sort of talking about money to talking about family. And for me, it was very satisfying to see because, you know, anytime I drink, I was going to think about money. It always says, you know, let’s talk about something else. It’s not it’s not really that important. The money will come as long as everything else is correct. So can you talk about to us a little bit about how the rest of your journey progressed? I know you went to.
to jungle and drank more and then you went pretty deep in the deep end of spirituality. Tell us, maybe tell us about your journeys. What have you seen? How did it feel?
Berto Cartagena (12:17.738)
Yeah. So there was two particular ceremonies that really stood out. And this is the crazy part. So I, um, I, uh, the first ceremony is arguably the most important, um, because it was crazy. I had made this plan, right? I said, since we have four ceremonies, I’m going to, I’m going to do one intention. Uh,
Confidence one intention creativity one intention clarity because those are the three C’s those are three things I want to focus on and then one for health, right? That was my plan going in something happened to me. Um, I Would describe it now as the Holy Spirit And something said to me right before I was gonna take my first cup it said Ask to be your highest self
which was interesting because I even have the domain, our highest self. And that’s what I want to, and I always tell people about being your highest self and highest self. Everything’s not. So I was like, okay, that makes sense. Took the first cup. Didn’t feel nothing. Took a second cup and I started having faint visions. It was like these red lines. My eyes were closed. I see these red lines, right? And then those red lines started forming a face and it was my face. And I was like,
my face on different magazine covers. I was like, okay, this makes sense. High self magazine covers. This is pretty cool. I’m thinking to myself, I’m like, oh, I must have a good trip, right? Because before I went in, I talked to a lot of people. They’re like, some trips are really beautiful. They’re really fun. They’re really loving. Some are more difficult. So I was like, okay, cool. I have a fun trip. And then while my eyes are closed, I see a flashing light like this, like almost like, you know, like a shooting star or something.
Then I open my eyes and I see somebody running to the bathroom. I looked to the right and the woman besides me, she’s cloaked up. She’s got her thing like this. She’s scrolling and she’s like crying and she looks like the Virgin Mary. And then all of a sudden her face just starts melting. And I’m like, I looked at him. All right. I’m like, hold on. This is I’m tripping. Whatever. Let me see. Let me try it again. I look again and her face is just melting. I’m like, Whoa.
Berto Cartagena (14:43.294)
Because right before that, the ayahuasca, because even though I had a vision there, my other ceremonies, I don’t usually, and even during the war, I think that was the only ceremony I actually had visions. But prior to that, the ayahuasca was like, if you wanna go deeper, drink more. It’s not a voice in your head, it’s just like a download. It’s just like information, you just know. And then when I saw that, I was like, whoa.
I don’t know if I should drink more. I went to the bathroom and I, the medicine is so intuitive. The whole night I was going to the bathroom on my left, something told me, like the ayahuasca was like, go to the right this time. So I go to the right and that person I see going to the bathroom, person comes out. It was almost like a divine moment. It was almost like the taita was just glowing, right? And I was like, taita, and I was trying to speak to him in Spanish, which is not my first language.
And it’s hard for me to even speak it sometimes sober. And I was speaking it on Iowa’s, I’m like, Taita, I don’t know what to do. The Iowaska told me to drink another cup, but then I opened my eyes and this lady’s face is melting. What should I do? And he was just like laughing. But that moment was so important to me because prior to the retreat, I had asked him, I was like, it was important for me to connect with the Taita.
I told him, can I talk? He’s like, well, they don’t really speak too much, whatever. I was like, okay. So it was like, wow, I got my moment. And this really changed the course of everything. He goes, you know, if you want, you could take a half a cup. And then, but this was the most boring. He touched me on my chest. He goes, but remember, the temple of Jesus is within you or something like that, which was a surprise to me because I thought, you know.
I was spiritual new age. I wasn’t Christian or anything like that. And I thought shamans were just, you know, indigenous spiritual people. I didn’t know they were Christian. So when he did that, if I felt a sort of comfort because it was something I was familiar with, right? Because also later on, I will get kind of freaked out because when they were doing like a cleanse, it looks very like, you know, if you come up, if you come from a Christian Catholic background, almost looks like
Berto Cartagena (17:07.318)
demonic, you know, you see this man and you’re tripping, you see somebody with feather hair and they got this, you know, pop, had to look like, I don’t know, like Papa Shango, this old wrestler, and they got the Loara, they got smoke, and I’m like, I’m tripping, I’m like, oh my God, okay, just try to compose myself, these are good people. So when he did that, you know, I felt a sense of comfort, right? So when I went back, I was thinking, okay, should I take another cup?
Should I take a half? You know, the whole time. And then the ayahuasca told me, you see Berto, this is what always happens. You’re always thinking ahead. Just surrender, let go and let things happen. So I was like, I surrender. Then what happens? I see that little light again, or no, this time the little light is on my right perimeter. My eyes are closed, but I see the shining light. I open my eyes, I look to my right, it’s the tita. He’s pouring a third cup. And then I see this,
I forget her name, but the British lady, remember the ayahuasca healed her physical ailment. That was a beautiful experience too. And I see her and she was scared to even take one cup. She was like, should I take a quarter or third? And I see her going up for a third. I was like, if she’s going up, I’m going up. So I go up and he didn’t even ask. He just poured it to the top. I was like, okay. Took the third cup. I lay down and.
All of a sudden I get a vision of my beautiful five-year-old niece who I’m very close to. She’s my heart. And then so I brought smiles to my face. But then, and then she, and then I saw her father, which is my brother. Now I felt all this love, like I never felt so much love for my brother in my life. And then all of a sudden, the ayahuasca tells me he’s, he’s going to die. So I was like.
Like, I was grasping, I was crying so much, and then I had a moment with my father, and I was planning to live and move to Columbia, and I ended up moving back to Puerto Rico. My father’s elderly, and I was showing me how much guilt I would have. And then I had a moment with my sister, and it was crazy. I could feel like the inside of my sister. Like, I went into her body, and I could feel all her pain and all her trauma. It was crazy.
Berto Cartagena (19:31.274)
I think that’s what ended up leading to my first purge. I blacked out. When I purged, it felt like everything was rushing out. I don’t throw up, not ever. Not even when I got drunk, I’ll black out, but I won’t throw up. I hadn’t thrown up in probably 20 years. All of a sudden, I feel this rush, and I felt like my head was gonna explode. Like, I couldn’t hold it, and I thought I was just gonna, my body was just gonna explode. I was like, brah! Like, just crazy.
But afterwards I felt the best I ever felt. And then I had a moment with my mom. My mom passed away. It wasn’t like a divine moment like I mentioned earlier, but it was a moment where I was just like, mom, I love you so much. And I remember just like screaming. I even shout out, you’re not supposed to do this during a ceremony, but I shout out to everyone in the group. I was like, if you love your parents or no, no matter how bad your parents were to you, they,
They could only love you the way they know how to love or the way they were loved. And I was like, love them, forgive. And I just felt like somebody needed to hear that. So yeah, it was just a lot of family. And I also had a moment with my ex, surprisingly. I thought the IOS was gonna tell me that I need to move on. And then, and I actually saw the beauty of her, just like my sister, but in a different way.
I got to see things from her perspective. Like I understood her issues with me and I saw the beauty in her. So it was just crazy that the same thing would happen to my dad. I could see his pain and why he acts a certain way. Like I started getting into these different people’s, like I don’t wanna say body, but like I could understand the way they thought. And it was just like crazy.
Sam Believ (21:22.329)
So regarding your ex girlfriend, is that true that you proposed to her a few days ago?
Berto Cartagena (21:29.086)
Yeah, yeah, so that’s a long story. But it’s an interesting one because that first ceremony, remember I told you there’s two important ceremonies in my life, that first one, it was kind of the foundation for my.
third ceremony and I went to the jungle, by the way. So I connected with the title there. He also, he gave me the cleanse, which at first I thought was demonic. And then it was crazy that, oh, that girl, what was her name? Lisa. This was crazy. It’s just, the medicine’s so crazy. So Lisa was a girl, and this all ties in. Lisa was a girl, the shyest girl in the whole group.
didn’t say anything to anybody. And I saw her, she was the one getting a bunch of cleanses the first night. And I was like, I will never do that. That looks like too weird for me, right? The next night, or the next day, she’s a completely different person. She’s the most bubbly person ever. Like, and she’s, she could like read my thoughts. When I wanted water, I was just thinking to myself, I want water, I don’t feel like it. She was like, you want water? And then there was another moment where she was like,
because the titans basically was with her all night because she was seeing like demonic spirits or whatever. And then she goes, hey, do you want to talk to the titan? At first I was like, no, I’m good. Because after the first ceremony, by the way, I thought I never needed to take ayahuasca again. I thought I was good for life. So anyway, I’m like, no, no. But then ayahuasca was like, no, surrender. Why not have this opportunity to talk with the titans? I talked with him. Anyway, he gave me.
He was like, you want to cleanse? And it was so crazy looking back at it because usually you do a cleanse when you’re having a hard time, right? But I was chilling. I was chilling. My intention was leadership. I was getting all this information about being a leader. He was like, you want to cleanse? I was like, remember the night before I was like, oh, that looks weird. I was like, okay. Because I was like surrender. I was like, okay, there’s a reason. Man, when he gave me that cleanse.
Berto Cartagena (23:45.106)
It was like he was putting water on me or the flower stuff. I started shaking, like, like shaking. Like I felt like I was possessed and he was just getting the demon out of me. And I couldn’t figure out whether I was cold but didn’t make sense because yes, I had my shirt off but I was in front of the fire and wasn’t cold or whether, you know, something else was going on. So I connected with him. He felt like my grandfather. It was torture at first, but afterwards it was great. So I connected with him and he invited me to.
to the jungle where he’s from. I was like, I would really, and how that came about was, I had just got back from Columbia to Puerto Rico in March, and then I just followed up with him. I was like, and like the end of March, thinking, you know, it was gonna be the end of April, maybe I could make it out there. He goes, look, there’s a big retreat going on in April. Can you make it? I was like, oh, it’s the end of March. You’re talking about April 2nd. But I looked at flights, I was like.
Let me look at flights. There wasn’t anything April 2nd, but there was something April 5th. So I went there and I told my friends, I was like, look, I’m just going there. I want to see how they live. And I even asked you, Sam, I was like, you know, do you think, when is the next time you think you should take IOS? People were like, oh, you know, it’s not something you want to do so often, maybe a year or whatever. So I was like, I’m just going to go check it out. And my friend goes, you’re going to go to Amazon around Taipei, you’re not going to drink? Please. So anyway, but, so I go there.
And I talked to the tita, I was like, you know, I was just coming to see how you guys live. And this tita didn’t even show up, it was his brother. But his brother is the head tita, he’s Fernando’s dad. So I asked him, I was like, what do you think? He goes, if the medicine calls you to drink, you could drink, I was like, okay, cool. So I drank, it was very biblical. This was around Easter time, and I could feel the suffering of Jesus. Like, it was crazy, but.
Going back to the third ceremony, this is how it all comes full circle. Very similar to the first ceremony. The Holy Spirit again, I didn’t recognize this as the Holy Spirit, only when I talked to my brother, and some people might call it something else, that’s irrelevant, but my brother was like, that’s the Holy Spirit. When I was gonna connect with my past lives or my ancestors and the Holy Spirit came to me, he goes, ask God what he wants from you. Not a voice, again, this is like a download.
Berto Cartagena (26:06.194)
ask God what he wants from me. And then at first I was like, oh shoot. I’m kind of scared actually, because what if God wants me to be like, do something crazy and be a priest and be a virgin? Like those are the thoughts going through my head. And I was like, but I surrender, I was like, okay, cool. And the whole time I’m like prepping myself. I’m like talking to myself and like, okay, this is this, you’re good, you’re loving. Da-da-da-da, like I was prepping myself, right? This most, I’m not gonna lie, most of my ceremonies, like I ended up doing 11.
total ceremonies by the way, that year. Most of my ceremonies have been very, very difficult. Like out of the 11, I would say maybe like six or seven were the hardest times of my life. Like the most difficult times of my life. Especially that first one. So anyway, so when I drank the medicine, God came to me right away. No visual, oh no, I was first you, the same thing that
you do a lawyera, except with them it’s a hand maker, you’re on a hand maker laying down. And I close my eyes and I see like a pattern. It was almost like a sand mountain, it had like curves. All of a sudden, the face, the face turned into what I perceived as God. Later on I would figure out it was Jesus, because he had a beard, but my intuition told me it’s God, but Jesus and God are the same thing. So, and then this is the crazy part, when I open my eyes.
I look to the right and there’s a palm tree, the sign of the cross. And it’s Easter Sunday. Easter Sunday God came to me and said, I want you to do two things. I want you to be a messenger and I want you to marry Julia. Now Julia’s my ex who in the wire of the medicine showed me how beautiful she was and you know, but we weren’t, we still weren’t born. I was talking to her. She had told me she’s happy being single. I was like, alright.
whatever and I was like Julia she’s not even Christian she’s in Poland she’s single like we’re not even going out she goes God said don’t worry she’ll say yes okay whatever and he said be a messenger and then I got some other information that the world was ending because and
Berto Cartagena (28:34.206)
not ending in the way we think, like an Armageddon type of way, no, but the suffering was ending. He said, we’ve been suffering long enough. And then when I thought about me being a messenger, because one of the reasons I haven’t been as vocal, even though I feel like that’s my purpose in life, is two reasons, one imposter syndrome, the other one was I’m scared that if I speak my mind, that eventually anybody that becomes a messenger, you know, like, yeah.
they usually end up dead or in jail. But God told me, it was crazy. God told me he’s like, Biden, Putin, they don’t have shit on me. And God was speaking to me in my voice. That’s what’s crazy about it. And I’ve heard from other people that God will appear to you like in your image, what we’re made in his image, right? So anyway, so I was like, okay, cool. I’m gonna follow God. I bought a ring. I will head to Europe. All right, planning to marry her.
And then she told me some things that I was like, hell no, there’s no way I can marry this girl. I was like, no, why would God? God was like, God, what it, and then I questioned everything that I had learned in that ceremony. I was like, I was like, I was like, bullshit, you know, my experience, and it was so disheartening because I was so sure. God told me, he was like, and God, this is how I know it was God.
He said, when you go, I was sitting on, Sam knows this, I like to go by myself and I find my little spots by myself. I did the same thing in Loera, did the same thing in the jungle and I was sitting on a rock. That’s what I was talking to God. And he goes, when you go back to the Maloka, the circle, he goes, I’m gonna prove to you, God, this person is going to bow down.
He gave me the name and gave me exactly what she was going to do. I said, okay, scroll up. I was sitting there on my local, just meditating. I had forgot about what God told me because you’re so in the zone that you’re just experiencing it. And then as I opened my eyes, I didn’t know she was across from me. The same lady he said goes down and goes like, she didn’t know. She was like, her eyes are rolling in the back of her head and she literally goes like that.
Berto Cartagena (30:59.934)
My hair’s just sticking up right now, guys. My hair’s just sticking up. I was like, holy crap. So I was so sure that was God. Like, he proved it to me. And you just know. And then when that happened, I was like, no way, God. And then what I realized when I got back to Puerto Rico, and then I was like, I’m going back to the jungle. I got a bone to pick with God. I was like, there’s no way he would’ve, he would’ve done, he wouldn’t want me to marry this girl. No way. I realized that I still had some more.
you know, healing to do from an ego perspective. And then, yeah, so I worked, even before I went back to the jungle for my, three, four, seven, eight, nine ceremony, even before I went back there, I already realized that I have two options. I can love this person unconditionally, or I can just throw away the love because of my ego, because they don’t fit this certain mold, because they’re not exactly how I wanted them to be or expected them to be.
So it was a learning experience for me, but like Sam said, just now I finally am sure that she’s the one that I proposed and yeah, that was April 9th. So a little over a week ago.
Sam Believ (32:14.949)
Well, congratulations. Um, is, uh, it’s a very interesting story and yeah, it’s important for people to understand, even if you get a message from ayahuasca, a realization, it’s not all going to be immediate, uh, as I like to say, also work with ayahuasca is, um, two steps forward, one step back process. It’s not all just, um, it’s not the magic bullet or magic pill. You take it, all the problems go away.
It is an experience, it is a journey and you obviously are on your journey. Something you mentioned about Taitas and how they are Christian, a lot of people get surprised by it, a lot of people see it as something negative and a lot of people think it’s something comforting because it’s the version, it’s the only version of spirituality they know but what my personal look on it is that…
In my very last ceremony I saw angels but not the angels you see in like a children’s book but the angels, the Bible specific angels like how they were described originally and they’re a bit monstrous looking like beings but the presence is definitely divine and I realized that you know people who were writing Bible they were seeing something very similar and getting similar information and there is
There’s even some proof now that Christianity might have been a psychedelic cult in its roots. So for me, it does not seem that impossible to believe that Christianity was also envisioned through psychedelics. Or even, you know, your work with the solar breath works, you can achieve those states and see those things.
Obviously, I don’t have all the answers, but I think that it’s not that separate. Obviously, the religion, the original spiritual core, the vision, the understanding, you know, put the other cheek, the love, the acceptance, the forgiveness, that is all true. But I don’t necessarily agree with what happened to Christianity later on and Catholicism and the strictness of it and how the church sort of looks now.
Sam Believ (34:37.685)
it became very human in those last few thousands of years. And together with that humanness, it took a lot of politics and stuff like that. So, but I do believe that the original core message is very, very true. What I also noticed for regarding religion is that no matter what religion you believe in, Ayahuasca takes you closer to that because I do believe that
There is one God and there’s different many ways you can look at it in different sort of perspectives and in a way it’s all kind of true because you know it’s more flexible than that. What are your thoughts and I know you took a deep dive into Christianity, you read the Bible. Tell us about how ayahuasca and Christianity combines in your worldview.
Berto Cartagena (35:16.472)
Yeah.
Berto Cartagena (35:31.542)
Well, do you know why the titles are Christian? At least this particular tribe.
Sam Believ (35:38.635)
I mean, they’re probably baptized by the Spanish people, but the next story, you know, tell me.
Berto Cartagena (35:42.154)
Nope, nope, nope. So, a lot of people don’t know this. And so, I was talking with the head titer, Fernando’s dad, and his name’s Jose, beautiful person. I go, hey, did you ever connect with your past lives? He goes, yeah.
I tried to, or your ancestors, I think I told them, your genealogy, he goes, yeah, but it goes back longer than a river. That’s what he told me, right? And I go, wow. And then I go, and I was probing him with questions, and it’s beautiful because they don’t open up to everybody. I had to earn his trust. At first, they’re quiet, they feel you out, you know? And then I go, how did…
These titans know with all these different plants to take this plant and that plant and put it together. Like how, how’d they know?
He goes, the Incas, the lineage stems back to the Incas. He goes, during that time, the Incas didn’t have their own culture. They were kind of just, you know, a product of like European, but they didn’t have their own culture. They didn’t know their own culture, right? And then I was like, hmm, okay. And he said, Jesus.
Jesus came to them and he plucked the hair from his hair. He said, take this and you shall know my father.
Berto Cartagena (37:33.546)
Or take this and you shall know your culture. Pluck the hair out of his beard. Take this and you shall know my father. So they believe Jesus gave them the medicine. That’s something you won’t find in Google. But here’s the interesting part. I told that story to my friend who also had a very, very similar ayahuasca experience with me. He was called to be a healer on the physical side. I feel like I’m more healer on.
Spiritual side I guess you could say but they’re both spiritual but he said that he also got a calling like where the West and The indigenous culture need to come together, right? and there’s a blend they’re not separate, right and He said when I told him that story he was like, oh my god He was like and he according to him
He said he connects with the angel Gabriel. And when he was reading his book of Mormon, angel Gabriel told him to stop at a certain page that says that Jesus came to the Americas. I’m not telling you guys what to believe. I’m just telling you what’s out there, right? So the book of Mormon, which stems back even before the Bible, even before Jesus times, right? If you believe it’s accurate. I’m not talking about the religion Mormon that came later, but I’m talking about the book of Mormon.
The Book of Mormon says Jesus came to the Americas. Titus say, Jesus came to them. So when I got back from my ayahuasca journeys, I became interested in the Bible because I have biblical visions that I didn’t know were biblical visions, but my brother’s very Christian. I started explaining to him what I saw. Like I saw the tearing of the veil. I saw the Ark of the Covenant, which I didn’t even know.
So I was like, wow. So I started believing more in Christian, but in the Bible and Christianity. But here’s the thing, I thought, okay, the Bible is a book with wisdom. It’s like mythological. I thought some of it’s real, some of it’s not. So I began delving in deeper, right? But, and this goes to your point, the Bible’s perfect. What’s not perfect are humans.
Berto Cartagena (39:57.214)
and human’s interpretations and I realized that because people were saying things in the Bible like ayahuasca is demonic, da-da-da-da-da. But guess what? The Holy Spirit came to me. Here’s the thing, you don’t need ayahuasca. Ayahuasca is not God. Ayahuasca is an instrument that can bring you closer to God. We need to realize that, right? So ayahuasca…
So all of my Christians were like, don’t do that stuff, don’t get into spiritual wrong, blah, blah. So it was very conflicted. And I talked to my other friend, I was like, how do you feel about this? Cause you’re a super Christian. He was like, nah man, you know, the medicine, the medicine’s good, whatever. And here’s what the Holy Spirit came to me in scripture. You know what a lot of these Christians sound like? Not all, not all, I do not all, cause I’m not trying to pick on religion or anything, but.
There’s a scripture that says the Pharisees came to Jesus and they accused them of being Baal. You’re like, Baal is the devil, right? They said, you cast spells and you healed the sick. And Jesus said back to them, now I’m paraphrasing, he said, well, if I healed the sick, wouldn’t that be the devil working against himself?
Why would the devil want to heal people? So that scripture talked to me. Because why, why would, if it’s demonic, why would a demon want to heal people and bring them closer to God? Is the devil going to work against himself? I never heard anybody say, oh, I love Satan after all. I was going to say, no, I love God. Whatever that God is to you, right?
So I think Christians mean a lot of times, but I think they misinterpret things, and I think they take things out of context. So we have to think about what was going on at that time, because there was a lot of black magic, and child sacrifices, and witch doctors that were using this stuff for bad things. They weren’t using this stuff to heal people, right? They weren’t bringing this up. So when Christians tell me, oh, ayahuasca is a sin, I go, you know what? You know what’s sin?
Berto Cartagena (42:23.83)
Sin is a disconnection from God. It is spiritual death. Iowasa brings you closer to God and a spiritual life. So, and sin is anything that doesn’t honor God, right? So how could Christian Taitas, who are healing people in the name of Jesus, be demonic?
So if you’re, and I’m sure there’s a lot of people out there, if you’re struggling with the religious part of ayahuasca, you feel like it goes against your faith or whatever, you know, pray about it, pray about it. And here’s the thing, I prayed about it. And immediately the Holy Spirit came to me and goes, cause I was gonna go back to the jungle again. Just so happens that it didn’t work, you know, financially, logistically, whatever.
But God reminded me, he goes, remember what I told you on that rock? I said, I’m not mean. I don’t know why everybody thinks I’m mean. You think I’m gonna, you know, you’re gonna go out there and you’re gonna drink ayahuasca and I’m gonna let something happen to you? That’s not, that’s not God. So anyway, I thought that was important to share.
Sam Believ (43:38.821)
It’s a good cherry. Ayahuasca is not a sin. That wouldn’t make a lot of sense because I’ve met a lot of people discovering God and connecting to different versions of it through Ayahuasca. So it wouldn’t make much sense if Ayahuasca was bad and there’s so many people that come and heal it. I do agree with you as well. You know, Ayahuasca is not God. It’s the tool. It’s…
think about it as a an antenna as a radio is something that strengthens your signal and strengthens your connection. But and the God is one there’s many ways to describe it. But you can definitely I’ve never been a spiritual person never been a religious person before working with Alaska and I came to Alaska to heal physically and mentally I didn’t care about the spiritual side of it. I thought it was just
gimmick a side effect but inevitably through my own experiences and through other people’s experience you start to sort of form the worldview where spirituality is a part of it. To such an extent that now I do believe that we are a spiritual beings living a physical existence and you kind of understand it because when we get born and when we die it is a very spiritual experience. There’s even if you’re zero spiritual and you believe that
When you die you will get reconnected to it because I believe this is where we’re going. And yeah, it’s definitely an interesting and very deep topic to be explored in depth. I need to get some priest who drinks ayahuasca and openly admits it or any other…
Berto Cartagena (45:23.734)
You know, there is a cult, there’s a, there’s a ayahuasca Christian like cult, whatever in Brazil I heard there’s Christians that drink ayahuasca. It’s really interesting. And I heard they’re very selective who they, they allow. You have to kind of be chosen or whatever, but there is a, um, there is a group that, that does both. Um, and the other part that I want to add onto that, um, I love the, the antenna comparison, but also.
Because now it’s almost like, I wouldn’t say I have, like it feels like I’m ayahuasca, but I’m more spiritually connected. But also I believe that purge, ayahuasca maybe doesn’t even connect you with God or spirit, but it removes everything that’s preventing you from connecting with God. Cause God is in all of us, but sometimes, you know, if you got a problem with alcohol or porn or, you know, sin basically, which is the…
If you’re living that life and that’s all inside of you, you know, then that’s what that purges is like, it’s not a purge like, Oh, I got out. I’m just throwing it up. No, it’s a purge of like, you’re purging all that negativity, those emotions. And when you cleanse that now it’s almost like you just opened up the highway. Right now you have a direct connection where it’s just kind of what you were saying with the antenna. So I think it’s both things. I think it opens you up for sure.
but it also cleans you out whatever’s preventing you from having that connection.
Sam Believ (46:59.161)
Definitely so definitely a very cleansing medicine and it feels more than just physical cleanse. It does feel like something is Leaving your body It’s interesting. You mentioned that Jose is Fernando’s brother. Obviously Gonzalo. They’re all from the same family. We’ve been working With that family for more than two years now Jose just came here. He was here for the inauguration of the Maloka that we just finished building
And I drank with him again. I drank with him maybe three years ago in the jungle as well. This is when I met both him and Fernando and Gonzalo. And it’s interesting. Yeah, he’s every type that has their own little feel to it. And they’re slightly different. One thing I wanted to correct you and they’re not Inca, they’re Inca with the G. They do say they come from Inca. They…
They say it’s like a part of Inca tribe that migrated to Colombia, but they they’re called Inca. It’s one of the five tribes in Colombia that works with ayahuasca.
Berto Cartagena (48:04.178)
Oh no, I’m saying their ancestry, their lineage comes from the Inca lineage. I didn’t know what their actual tribe name, but thank you for that. Somebody asked me once when I was saying, and I didn’t know what tribe name, but cool. But yeah.
Sam Believ (48:11.61)
Mm-hmm.
Sam Believ (48:18.773)
Yeah, they say they come from Incas and it’s an interesting, also interesting story. Try to understand, you know, how they were running away from Spaniards kind of deeper in a jungle and ended up in Columbia. But how is your life now, Berto? How are you? What are you working on? I know you for a while you were trying to be the spokesman for Ayahuasca and the Christianity. What are you up to these days?
Berto Cartagena (48:46.158)
So yeah, I think the last part to have come.
Berto Cartagena (48:53.674)
Well, interesting enough, so this is also an ayahuasca. So when God called me to be a messenger, right, I thought God meant be an influencer, right? Because God, as I got to know God and read the word, God will tell you what to do. He won’t tell you how. So he told me to be a messenger. So I thought.
that men be an influencer. So I was like, okay, what topics would be good? Now I’m mixing God. And then I came back and I didn’t have the…
Christian or spiritual acumen. Like I’ve made some content. I was like, Muslims and Christians are all right. They’re both right. Like I just made stuff that felt right to me at the time, but I didn’t know enough to be saying certain things. So I was confused for a while, right? And then the other thing was that I…
Well, there’s two points I want to make to this, it’s very important. When I got back after I went to Laiwhaora, I was feeling great. Went to the jungle Easter, came back feeling amazing, but I didn’t listen to God. I actually, I was trading crypto and
I was on fire. I turned $1500 to $15,000. That’s why I booked a trip to Europe. But I didn’t listen to God. I was like, oh, when I get money, I’ll get, you know, I can publish, grow my brand more, blah, blah. At first I was, I was doing some content, but then I got into crypto. And here’s the thing, like, it’s really hard. It’s really hard to give up things that you’re attached to.
Berto Cartagena (50:52.35)
And sometimes even things that don’t seem like it’s bad, because yeah, you’re making a lot of money or yeah, I’m a Christian, I go to church, but I’m eating like crap. That’s still a sin. You’re still, these things, if you don’t eat good, you’re disconnecting yourself from God. If you’re gambling, it doesn’t always have to be that obvious. Like it could be small stuff. And I realized that crypto, like every two seconds I was checking my, and that became my God.
So ask yourself, what’s your God anyway? so
same way God give, God take it away. That $15,000 I gained was wiped out in a day because I was doing some heavy leverage trading for those of you that don’t know. Basically, if I had $1,000, I could 10X, which means I was really trading with 10,000. But if you gain 10%, you gain $1,000, right? 10% of 10,000. But if you lose 10% and where it goes down and crypto goes down, crazy, then you lose that $1,000. So yeah, you could gain a lot, you could lose it all. It’s not like traditional.
So I lost that in a day.
Now this ties into another thing. I just to support my niece who lives in Columbia. She wanted, she saw the effects that ayahuasca had on me. She wanted to do ayahuasca ceremony. So I went, I did a one nighter with her. Nothing crazy. Didn’t see a big deal. Taito Jose, somebody was asking Taito Jose, shoot, it was a girl in my July retreat. She goes, hey, my friend wants me to do ayahuasca with her in Argentina. She knows this really good, but I don’t know. I don’t know if I should, you know,
Berto Cartagena (52:30.754)
go with another medicine because sometimes it could cut your blessings, right? Just saying it’s Spanish. So then I look at the taita and he goes, yes, that’s true. Like if you mix another medicine, it could cut your blessings off. And then in the back of my head, I’m going, okay, well, every taita thinks their medicine is the best. Although I do think Taita Jose is amazing and everybody says the same thing. But in the back of my head, I was like, you know, I had a ceremony. Nothing went wrong.
with mine, you know? But I didn’t say that, I wanna be respectful. But I was thinking it. Next day, I wake up, I was like, after I had that ceremony, I lost $15,000, I went to Europe and didn’t marry my girlfriend, I lost my job, I stopped creating content, I was like.
Okay, maybe there’s something to this. So I’m saying that because I think it’s very important that you’re thinking about ayahuasca that you don’t go just jumping around and you don’t just go with the cheapest. You don’t go with who your friend says. You don’t go wherever got the most likes on Facebook or wherever got the coolest. I think it’s very important that you take it with somebody you trust. And that’s why I refer a lot of people to you guys because especially first timers.
You know, I think there’s no better place you could go for your first time because the jungle is amazing. Taito Jose, he’s the best, but he, his son is at LaWara. Fernando is arguably the best musician I’ve ever been around. You know how I feel about that. And then also the support that you guys give because my girlfriend, for instance, did Ayahuasca and she did a one-nighter and she said she was so depressed and suicidal.
So it’s very important and if you go to jungle, you don’t know Spanish, it’s hard for you to communicate. Again, I’m not saying you shouldn’t go to the jungle. I think if you’re experiencing, you should experience it, but for your first time, it’s a challenge to get there. I think O’Wara is great for first timers and non-first timers, but especially first timers. So, so yeah. So anyway, I’m saying all that to say this. So I had to go through a lot of struggle and then I was doing marketing. I didn’t wanna do marketing, but.
Berto Cartagena (54:52.498)
I had a limiting belief that, you know, how am I going to make money being a life coach or a mentor or whatever? And then I realized, and I’m still working through this, that I have to take the leap of faith. I know what I was meant to do. God told me what I was meant to do. But God wants you to have faith. And sometimes, faith is not believing in the unseen.
Right? Just because I don’t know how I’m going to make money doing this, it doesn’t mean that I should settle for less and do what I’ve been doing, which for some reason or another never works out. And I think that’s the universe, God, whatever you call it, pushing me towards. So I, um, I’m right now, I’m going to be creating content. I realize what my message is now. And I feel like I have enough acrimony in regards to spirituality, Christianity. I know enough.
And I realized that at its core, all religions are saying the same thing. You know, there’s little tweaks and stuff, but you know, because I delved so much into new age and then I delved into Christianity and they’re saying they’re using different language. I’ll give you an example today. It was like, I think our purpose is in life is for our consciousness to evolve. That’s new age terminology, but that’s not really that much different to saying.
our purpose in life is to carry on God’s will. It’s really not much difference when you start realizing what God’s will is, right? And we’re here to love, we’re here to surrender, we’re here to go with life’s flow. Buddhism, Christianity, my girlfriend was raised in Buddhist, so I’m familiar with these. So I wanna get that message out there to people and in a nutshell, I wanna help people become unstuck because just like I was unstuck.
That’s something that I have experience with and I wanna share with others. So whether that’s content, mentoring, coaching, that’s what’s next for Birdo.
Sam Believ (56:57.285)
Thank you Berto, that’s a beautiful message. So if somebody wants to hear more about your message, where can they find that and hear it?
Berto Cartagena (57:06.382)
Sure, all across social media is Berto Cartagena. For some reason, my Twitter got hacked and suspended. I gotta mess with that. But YouTube, Berto Cartagena, B-R-T-O, Cartagena, like the city in Spain, C-A-R-T-A-G-E-N-A. Please reach out. I believe in healing. A lot of people will only do things for money, but if I could help you, if I could point you in the right direction, I’m more than happy to do that as well.
Sam Believ (57:35.065)
Thank you, Berto. Thank you for sharing your story. I think it’s fascinating and good luck on your spiritual journey.
Berto Cartagena (57:43.222)
Thank you Sam, hope to see you guys in a not so distant future and thank you for having me on. Alright, take care, bye.
Sam Believ (57:50.085)
See you soon, Berta.